'Excellent women' - Chapters 01 - 09

OK, here we go - I did manage to get started last night after all.

I'm really enjoying it so far. It's light, humourous reading and very often tongue in cheek. I do get the impression though that, sometimes, the author makes it too clear that something is supposed to be funny - hey, I'm not daft, I like to figure out for myself when I'm supposed to laugh.

The first time I laughed out loud was probably on page 9 - "I had observed that men did not usually do things unless they liked doing them"

p 11 - I wondered what "Censorship" was - this is what Mildred did during the war (which is WW2). It becomes clearer a few pages later, and I guess she had to read the soldiers' correspondence to make sure that they didn't betray any military secrets in their letter. I had a friend in the Swiss army once, and when I wrote to him while he was on one of their annual military exercises, all I put on the envelope was "Herr xy", followed by a number, "Schweiz", because I wasn't allowed to know where he was.

p 20 - "My hand might have chosen Religio Medici, but I was rather glad that it had picked out Chinese Cookery"

p 26 - "it does give one a special link with a person, to have done any academic work with him". Yeah, right.

to be continued...

I am sort of on a slow start at the moment but at least I am reading a bit each day on my breakfast break!

I am really enjoying the book and its humour! I like her style of writing a lot though I am not really sure yet what the story will be about... will it be more of a whodunnit or more of a comedy... But that's also pretty charming for me.

In addition to the quotes you already talked about, MaryRead, I also had to laugh out loud on page 21, when Mildred talked about the new roll of toilet paper of rather inferior brand, which appeared in the lavatory..

I'm already looking forward to my break tomorrow

What I also found funny somehow was that the quite unusual name Rockingham.

Ok, at least I started...

I don´t really like this: "Hey, I´m going to tell you a FUNNY story!!!", but I perhaps I will get used to it.

Up to this point, I´m not sure if Mrs. Napiers husband really exists, but otherwise it seems a bit odd to name a non-existing person "Rockingham". I would have expected a more ordinary name like Peter or John or something like that. We´ll see

OK - I started to read the book this morning. There are some words I do not know, but that doesn't matter. Nevertheless it is quite good understandable.

My question: what do you do with the unknown words? Do you look for each one of it in your dictionary? I don't do that, because I normally read in the subway and have no dictionary with me there.

I had a good start and also wondered about the "censorship" - thanks for your information @ Mary Read!

Zitat

Original von kahlan
Up to this point, I´m not sure if Mrs. Napiers husband really exists,

There is something wrong about Mr. Napier, I think, too. I'll quote later what I mean.
In the meantime I'll try to find out (thanks leo.org ), whether or not my first impression is right.
I don't dare to write about it, before I know exactly if my translation is right.

Muffin ... now you got me wondering what I missed?! and what you found out! Did I ever mention before that I can be really, really curious?

Batcat : usually I don't look up words because I am too lazy; also I rather think that I can get a better impression if I try to get hold of the whole context instead of missing words. So I try to go on and figure it out "in total"

Lemmi

Have you ever seen a man collecting snowstorms and these things?
That wasn't surely common in these days.

...when he was in Italy being charming to Wren officers... (page 13)
by the way: what meens "Wren officer"?

When I read this, my thoughts gone straightly to.. hmm, how should I say?
He's a gay wench.

Just now, while I write this, I think I simply haven't understand the joke. In this case "being charming" means "to suck up to the officers", right?

edit: I just find out my page numbers are different from yours.

AH!! Now I see what you thought!
And I just took it as a given that he just liked Victoriana - without giving it another thought! Thanks for explaining. Now I wonder...

Concerning the Wren officer - I don't know for sure but I think it is something relating to a Naval officer or so? I just took it as an "officer who sailed on the oceans"?!? And yep - I just understood that he was being nice to them - why though, goes beyond me...
Anyway... now I am totally hooked up on another train of thoughts...

Batcat :

Normally some unknown words don't mind me.
But sometimes it will do better to look in the dictionary.

Muffin and Lemmi
I really hate to disappoint you... but Wren officers are women.

Zitat

The Women's Royal Naval Service (WRNS, popularly known as 'Wrens') was a non-combat branch of the United Kingdom Royal Navy that recruited women.

Members included cooks, clerks, wireless telegraphists, and electricians. It was formed in 1916 during the First World War, and by the end of the war had 5,500 people, 500 of them officers.

It was revived during the Second World War, with an expanded list of allowable activities, including flying transport planes.

Wikipedia

And "being charming", well, he was certainly flirting with them, but the way Mildred insists on just how charming he was and just how much they needed his support, I wonder whether flirt was all he did...

Zitat

Original von Muffin
edit: I just find out my page numbers are different from yours.

oh...
I'll make sure to include at least the chapter number from now on.

So you've just destroyed my hopes, Mary.
[size=7]I've seen Rocky and Julian as lovers.[/size]

Anyway, thanks for the explication.

Aaaah... I also was wondering about a man who collects Victoriana, snowstorms etc. I am glad to see that I am not the only person wondering about the mysterious Mr Rockingham Napier...

At some point, Rocky reminded me of this old TV programme, "Der Kapitän und Mrs Muir" - does one of you remember it? I'd love to see it again, I can only remember that I really loved it and that it had something spooky... and wasn't there a parrot, too?
edit: it was called "The Ghost and Mrs Muir", and it must have been "Der Geist..." in German, too - but he was a captain, wasn't he?

Some more flags from this section:

Chapter 3
p 27 "putting me in my place among the rows of excellent women" - This is the first time that the title of the book is referred to; there is another reference a couple of pages later. I wonder what exactly it means??

Chapter 4
p 31 - I wonder why she uses the German word "Stimmung"?? It's the first time I've seen it used in an English text, and "atmosphere" would have done just as nicely (in fact, she uses it two pages later in a very similar context). I wasn't aware that "Stimmung" is one of those German imports like "weltschmerz" and "leitmotif" (which, to be honest, I've never seen used in English texts either, but they are the examples that you find everywhere ) Perhaps "ambiente" would have been suitable, since Rocky has just come from Italy?

p 32 - "and the tea is in a funny little bag". I have to say, though, that English people use tea bags too, these days. I had to laugh when I read this sentence... I was reminded of one particular Englishman who just loves his "tea ceremony", even if he has to drink his tea from paper cups at the office.

p 35 - "It depends what you set out to do", I said rather crossly, feeling like Alice in Wonderland.
Do you know the bit in "Alice in Wonderland" that she is referring to? I have a feeling it may be Humpty Dumpty and the meaning of words... I can't remember exactly how it went, but I think Humpty Dumpty (or someone) asked a question about a particular word, and Alice (or someone) explained to him that words mean exactly what you want them to, no more, no less.

edit: ah, found it:

Zitat

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'

Source

Chapter 5
p 40 - Has anyone come across a poet named Christina Rossetti - does/did she really exist? The quotes do sound a bit over the top, but quite intriguing.

Right....
Back to Chapter 8, that's where I left off this morning.

Christina Rosetti was indeed a real poet. I found some poems, her biographie, ...
poetseers

poemhunter

I'm sure we're going to read more Rosetti-quotes during the book.

edit: more secondary literature about "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir":

BBC and epguides (what a lovely picture)

I don't really know the series which was shown at 1970, but I suppose I've seen the original movie from 1947.

Why did you thought at, Mary?

I see, the discussion is running (please excus me if I use expressions in a wrong way, I try to do my best).

I just shut the book I was reading the last days and hope to start Barbara Pym tomorrow.

I read the first 4 chapters last night and should be able to get quite a bit further today as my car desperately needs a wash and the line-up in front of the car wash takes forever ...

The language is quite interesting. Very British, somewhat outdatet without being classic, yet. With some terms I just laugh like "gay trousers". Today's Northamericans would call them "funky pants". "Perambulator" is rather antiquated, too, it would be "pram" for the Brits, "stroller" for the othe side of the Atlantic.

Some words I don't know at all, those are the ones you don't find in an ordinary dictionnary either and then I just need to take them from the context. "biretta" seems to be a hat. My husband (native Canadian) didn't know the term either. I think those must be very specific terms for the British in that time period.

Zitat

Original von MaryRead
Chapter 3
p 27 "putting me in my place among the rows of excellent women" - This is the first time that the title of the book is referred to; there is another reference a couple of pages later. I wonder what exactly it means??

Chapter 4
p 31 - I wonder why she uses the German word "Stimmung"?? It's the first time I've seen it used in an English text, and "atmosphere" would have done just as nicely (in fact, she uses it two pages later in a very similar context). I wasn't aware that "Stimmung" is one of those German imports like "weltschmerz" and "leitmotif" (which, to be honest, I've never seen used in English texts either, but they are the examples that you find everywhere ) Perhaps "ambiente" would have been suitable, since Rocky has just come from Italy?

Yup, that "Stimmung" caught me off guard as well. There are lots of German terms used in English like the ones you mentioned. But I've never seen "Stimmung". I felt it was used to indicate that Rockingham is from a different class and thus uses a different language than our main character.

Class is a very integral part of British society to this day and it does shine through already in this little book.

"Excellent women" - I'm still not sure what it's meant to mean. Was that a common expression for spinsters at the time or something specially made up for this book???? and in the title it's not clear whether it's meant in the plural or in singular.

Some more thoughts:

I would like to know what year it is. Beginning or end of the war? I'm surprised that they're drinking coffee. I thought the English suffered from wartime shortages as well. Not as much as many other countries but I'm surprised that they were able to drink coffee and could even choose among different qualities of toilet papers.

Overall, I'm still not sure what this book is about. Not sure if I were that interested in reading it just on my own without this group.

The language is quite interesting. Very British, somewhat outdatet without being classic, yet. With some terms I just laugh like "gay trousers".

Yes... I also remarked that the language sometimes is a little bit old-fashioned ;-).

Regarding the time I supposed the book to take place between 1945 - 1947 as somewhere I could read something about men who now come back from war. So I thought that war already finished and they come back from war, war prisons etc.

Sorry, as I only have time to read in the subway this week I forgot to use post-its as usual and so my comments become shorter as usual (because I forgot some things *shame on me*).

Zitat

Original von Muffin
Christina Rosetti was indeed a real poet.

Zitat

And if thou wilt, remember,
And if thou wilt, forget.

*sigh*

Zitat

Overall, I'm still not sure what this book is about.

Good question! I haven't figured it out either. *g*

Zitat

"Excellent women" - I'm still not sure what it's meant to mean. Was that a common expression for spinsters at the time or something specially made up for this book???? and in the title it's not clear whether it's meant in the plural or in singular.

Hmm... how can "excellent women" be a singular?

There is another reference to the title on p 67 (chapter 8), where William says to Mildred "I always think of you as being so very balanced and sensible, such an excellent woman." "Excellent" is almost used as a synonym for "virtuous", isn't it?

I didn't even notice that the text was particularly "British", except perhaps for the "perambulator" - I'm just so used to hearing Britspeak. But you're right, of course, Beatrix , also about the class thing. Even among my colleagues, all of whom are professionals of (one would think) a certain intellectual level, it's still quite prominent.

And this is a "biretta" (I had never heard the term before either):

As regards the time, it must be a year or two after WW2. On p 15 (chapter 2) Winifred says that "a lot of new people have moved here since the war ended".

Yes, I'm still wondering what the book is about, and I must admit that chapter 8 really confused me. All of a sudden there is an entire chapter about Mildred's meeting with William, when Mildred was really talking about all and nothing in particular (well, except Rocky, maybe ) until then.

And another quote about men, from chapter 9 (p 83): "I always feel that one ought to give men the opportunity for self-sacrifice; their natures are so much less noble than ours." I'll remember that!

Zitat

Why did you thought at, Mary?

You mean what made me think of "The Ghost and Mrs Muir"? No idea, I guess it was the naval officer with his Victoriana and snowstorms...